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I'm referring to such constructions as ne verb pas, ne verb que, ne verb jamais, etc.

In Spanish, the negative precedes the verb: no lo quiero.

In Anglo Saxon languages, the negative follows the (helping) verb: I do not like that. Doch das Messer, sieht man nicht.

So do the two different parts of the French negative perform different functions in the negation?

And what about the times when it seems like "ne" is superfluous? As in "Pas du tout ".

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Notice that ne tends to be (errouneously) omitted, for example: je comprends pas la question, so who knows, maybe in the distant future it won't exist anymore. – Joubarc Sep 2 '11 at 16:07
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Quite interested by this one: I know that the split negative (which I think is called « négation renforcée » in French) is a relatively recent phenomenon. Indeed, the simple negative construct (« je ne sais si je l'aime ») is still used in literary style. But I don't know more than that, and I'd love to learn! – F'x Sep 2 '11 at 16:10

3 Answers

up vote 11 down vote accepted

Grevisse:

Primitivement, la négation portant sur un verbe est exprimée par l'adverbe ne, et celui peut encore suffire dans certaines circonstances. Le plus souvent cependant, on recourt à la fois à ne et à un auxiliaire, adverbe, déterminant ou pronom. Ces auxiliaires, qui n'avaient pas de sens négatif à l'origine ont fini par prendre eux-même ce sens négatif et par pouvoir s'employer négativement sans ne.

[...]

La forme atone ne [de non qui provient du latin non], négation ordinaire dans la langue du moyen âge, a été de très bonne heure renforcée par des noms désignant une petite quantité, une petite étendue, une chose de valeur insignifiante : pas, point, mie (= miette), goutte, mot, noix, pois, espi, , bouton, denier, pomme, [...] Les plus fréquents de ces compléments ont perdu leur valeur propre pour devenir de simples auxiliaires de la négation. Le choix ne s'est pas opéré de la même façon partout : il y a des dialectes où l'auxiliaire normal est point ; d'autres où c'est mie ; etc.

Il y a 16 pages qui suivent pour décrire les manières de nier un verbe dans mon édition du bon usage plus 6 qui traitent du ne explétif. J'ai eu l'idée un temps de les résumer, j'abandonne.


English summary: in old French, ne was used alone, and it still can sometimes. Quickly additional words were used to emphasize. Nowadays those additional words often must be used. While they hadn't a negative meaning at the start, they acquired one and may now be used in some contexts without ne in their negative meaning.

There are 16 pages describing the way to negate a verb in my edition of le bon usage, plus 6 describing the ne explétif where ne isn't used to negate. I played with the idea to summarize them, but dropped it.

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Most amusing: when speaking, the ne is often omitted: je pense pas - but this is incorrect French. However, in (archaic) writing, the pas is omitted: je ne pense - this is correct. – Konerak Sep 2 '11 at 22:30
Interesting! Is "pas" therefore the same word as the noun "un pas" (a step)? I get that impression when looking at the helper words (a crumb, nut, drop, button, etc.). It seems to make sense in the same way English would say "I don't like it one bit". – Andrew Vit Sep 3 '11 at 4:59
@Konerak, things are more complex that that. Omitting ne is far too common to qualify it as incorrect (Grevisse just describes the usage but usually mentions when common usage is not considered valid by some, he doesn't here). It occurs not only when speaking but also when writing, at least for some helper words like rien. On the other hand, ne is sometimes always used without an helper word, sometimes the helper word is optional (and more so in writing than when speaking) and sometimes (like a standalone Je ne pense.) we never do it. – Un francophone Sep 3 '11 at 6:08
@Andrew, it is exactly that. – Un francophone Sep 3 '11 at 6:10

The origin of the "auxilliaire de négation pas" is not clear. I still found a page in Google Cache for Finnish student learning french. It also seems to be kind of confirmed by the Wiktionary. To be noted, the real negation is the "adverbe ne" and not the auxiliary.

[FR] Le mot pas est au départ un simple nom qui servait à renforcer la négation. Il subsiste d’autres noms de ce type, mais nettement moins fréquents : ne … point (= ne … pas), utilisé dans langue soutenue ou dans un usage régional ; ne … mot, ne … goutte sont littéraires et se sont conservés dans quelques expressions plus ou moins figées :

[EN] The word pas was originally a simple noun which was used to reinforce the negation. It persists other noun of this type, but less frequent : ne … point (= ne … pas), used in formal language or regional usage; ne … mot, ne … goutte are literary and have been conserved in fixed expressions.

Il n’y a point d’autre solution.

Il n’a dit mot.

On n’y voit goutte.

Je n’y comprends goutte.

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"Mot" aussi? je vois: "mie, goutte, pas et point " ici: fr.wikisource.org/wiki/… J'ai du mal à voir "mot" comme un adverbe – Nikko Sep 2 '11 at 17:05
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Sinon, il y a pas, point, nullement (aucunement, mie), rien, nul, personne, aucun, jamais, guère, plus, nulle part et j'arrête ici de chercher. – Un francophone Sep 2 '11 at 17:24
Oui, il n'y a que l'embarras du choix. – Stéphane Gimenez Sep 4 '11 at 21:03

(Copying parts of another answer of mine.)

Originally, ne is what makes the negation. The etymology of "pas" and "jamais" are exactly the opposite of their current meaning because of this. The only remainder (and cause of ambiguity is "plus"). There is a direct parallel with not and ever/more in English.

For example, "Je (ne) mange jamais de bonbons" ("ne" is rarely used in speech) would mean "I (n)ever eat sweets.". No one today would understand jamais in this context to mean ever or always: it's always understood as never. However, there are cases where the "ever" meaning is still used. For example: "Il court plus vite que jamais." (More than ever).

I'm not aware of any similar example with "pas" (although my understanding is that it comes from similar Latin roots and constructs).

There is still an ambiguity when you say "J'ai plus de bonbons."

  • If you pronounce "plusse", it's meant as it's written ("I have more sweets.")
  • If you pronounce "plu", ne is implied and should be written "Je n'ai plus de bonbons." (i.e. no more).

In addition, linking ne to the verb allows you to negate verbs in a way that can be quite tricky in English. For example:

  • "Je peux ne pas faire quelque chose." -> "(I may) (not do something)", which is completely the opposite of "I may not do something" (i.e. I'm not allowed to).
  • "Ca peut ne pas marcher pour telle ou telle raison." -> "(It can) (not work)", whereas "can not" (or cannot) would have a completely different meaning.
  • In English, you also get split infinitives (at least in common speech) quite regularly because of this. "Je fais ceci pour ne pas faire ca." would often be said (incorrectly) as "I do this to not do that."
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