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Simple question for a beginner. I have problems to say trop occupé and I find it easier to say troccupé and I wonder if the p is removed in normal speaking french?

Just like je ne suis pas is pronunced Je'n sui pa because the e from ne is removed even if it's against the rules.

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  • Pronouncing ne in your kind of example, is not common. – GAM PUB Sep 23 '20 at 17:43
  • @GAMPUB so its only jen vais pas? – Daniel Mårtensson Sep 25 '20 at 9:27
  • Je m’en vais pas... – GAM PUB Sep 25 '20 at 11:34
  • @GAMPUB not "Je'n vais pas"? I have been thought that. – Daniel Mårtensson Sep 29 '20 at 10:14
  • Depends on the formal sentence, you are thinking of. « Je ne m'en vais pas » (I am not leaving) => « J'm'en vais pas ». « Je ne vais pas ... » (I am not going ...) => « j'vais pas ». With the second one, the pronunciation of the negative n as you are suggesting is more common. – GAM PUB Sep 29 '20 at 10:20
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"Troccupé" will not do, unless you pronounce a long o, that is an o that is nearly twice as long; it is better to pronounce two o's with a small silence in between. Here is this second pronunciation with a small silence : audio.

You have the choice to make the liaison or not (tro-occupé, tropoccupé).

The difference between "Je'n sui pa" and "je ne sui pa" is rather a matter of regional accent : in the north of France and in Paris you are mostly going to hear the first whereas in the south it'll be the second a lot.

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    Tro occupé sounds good to me. But is that commonly used? – Daniel Mårtensson Sep 22 '20 at 19:29
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    @DanielMårtensson I use it myself. Therefore it must be the mark of a certain currency; in any case, it is much more common than the pronunciation with the liaison. I tend not to insert this small silence I was talking about, but I find better do make a small separation and I do so if speaking carefully enough. – LPH Sep 22 '20 at 19:37
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I have never heard Trocuppé although in fast speaking, an untrained ear might be fooled.
The O need to be longer than a regular one, even if only slightly more, for the phrase to be natural.

In normal speed speaking, there is a syllable separation between trop and occupé. It can be thin.

Pronouncing the P of trop is also possible but more formal and rarer.

Je ne suis pas is indeed often pronounced je'n sui pa, better written je n'suis pas.

This isn't "against the rules" as usage makes the rules as far as pronunciation is concerned.

Moreover, je n'suis pas is still on the formal spoken French side as the most common way to say it fully drop the ne to make either je suis pas or "chuis pas".

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I do not agree that the liaison is more formal and rarer. On the contrary, liaisons are increasingly prevalent, to the extent that you hear a pause followed by the last consonant of the previous word. Les étudiant.......s'en parlent souvent. The famous and erroneous exaggeration of this is quatre......semployés

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  • Hello and welcome to FSE. Can you please provide some sources to consolidate what you are saying? This is not the place to give opinions, so if you could include some numbers to prove that the liaison is increasingly prevalent, that would make this answer much more interesting. Thanks! – Reyedy Sep 24 '20 at 12:26
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In good French, you must say [tro.po.cu.pé] and not [tro.o.cu.pé]. The liaison is an essential characteristic of the spoken French language. Though in the present day, with the cultural debasement, the liaison is often omitted, it is incorrect to do so.

We even add phonetic letters to create a liaison when we feel it is missing, as in the expression "va-t-en": [va.t(en)] the "t" here is only added to prevent the ugly proximity of "a" and "en".

Today, with the advertising industry, spoken French is deliberately damaged, as in ads you will always hear "vingt euros" pronounced [v(in)(eu)ro] instead of [v(in)t(eu)ro]: And still, noboy will ever pronounce "vingt ans" as [v(in)(an)] but everyone says [v(in)t(an)]: In the same way, everyone should say [v(in)t(eu)ro].

Though eminent writers told the advertisers it was a mistake to say [v(in)(eu)ro], they carry on doing it, because they think people are not smart enough to understand the liaison. I believe they are not smart enough to understand people are not as stupid as advertisers think they are...

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  • I'd like to know who is the silly person that gave me a minus for this: There is absolutely no doubt that what I said above is strictly true, apart from the last phrase which is an opinion about advertisers and with which you can disagree. For the rest, you are abusing people who want to learn French when you make them think the proposition above is wrong. Honesty commands that you must justify your position if you object my assertion, and I guess that won't be easy. – BBBreiz Sep 23 '20 at 9:06
  • I would say it's for the very same reason you had three downvotes on that question: french.stackexchange.com/questions/41776/… – jlliagre Sep 23 '20 at 13:46
  • Nous n'avons pas les symboles phonétiques dans le jeu ASCII, donc nous utiliserons ici les symboles suivants: "on"= [ô], "in"=[î], "an" = [â]. Voici une phrase: "Quand on a un ami, on a un allié sûr" Donc, selon vous, il semble correct de dire: [kâ.ô.a.î.a.mi.ô.a.î.a.lié.sur] Pour ma part, il me semble plus correct de dire: [kâ.tô.na.î.na.mi.ô.na.î.na.lié.sur] La liaison n'est définitivement pas facultative, et je le maintiens. – BBBreiz Sep 23 '20 at 15:13
  • Je n'ai jamais soutenu que toutes les liaisons étaient facultatives, seulement que celle de trop occupé est devenue de fait optionnelle. Il n'y a d'ailleurs pas de trace de trop occupé dans ta phrase mais puisque tu me la proposes, qu'est-ce que tu penserais si je te reprochais de ne pas prononcer correctement un ami, que tu transcrit /ɛ̃.na.mi/ confondant les nasales IN et UN alors que la prononciation correcte est /œ̃.na.mi/ ? – jlliagre Sep 23 '20 at 16:06
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    The question is not about "good" French but about French. The most common pronunciation is definitely of some interest to the second language learner. There is nothing more frustrating than learning the "formal" form of a language to discover on site that almost nobody speaks this way... – GAM PUB Sep 23 '20 at 17:48

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