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Bonjour à tous ! This is a minor question but one I've run into multiple times now. Sometimes, when listening to French spoken in a casual or relaxed manner, I find that "je vais" and "je veux" seem to reduce all the way to [ʒə] or even just [ʒ]. Voici des exemples:

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentences/show/1337118
"Je veux attraper celui de minuit moins le quart."

https://voca.ro/12fmJtItFqS1
"Tu vois la vie en rose, je vais t'en faire voir de toutes les couleurs!"

I'm familiar with French's tendency to elide /ə/ all over the place in informal speech (something English does as well), but for /ɛ/ and /ø/ to apparently be subject to elision/reduction as well feels unexpected.

Am I accurate in my understanding of what's occuring in these examples? If so, how frequently does this happen with "je veux" and "je vais" (or any other examples I should know)? Is there a reason I've only noticed it for these two phrases other than they're simply very common and thus more prone to this sort of thing? I would love any personal insight or further reading that anyone has to offer regarding this sort of maximal reduction in spoken French. Merci d'avance !

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  • When speaking fast and informally it's common to elide the /ə/ sound in personal pronouns je, me, te, le. Just a couple of examples: j'suis là que j'me prépare ... est là qu'y m'félicite](0:42), J'veux bien t'aimer mais comment est-ce que j'peux t'aimer si j'te vois pas ?(0:37). I expect it's quite frequent to say j'vais bien. We usually have only one elision at a time, not two consecutive : je le vois would either be [ʒəlvwa] or [ʒləvwa]. Lots of regional variations too.
    – None
    Commented Aug 9 at 19:02
  • I believe I've heard it elsewhere and it goes s/what beyond the elision @None observed: it makes the voiced labiodental (v), which now follows immediately the sibilant (j'), rather difficult to pronounce as a fricative, which negates in part the comfort gained from eliding. My own solution is to restore the e: je vais, je veux instead of j'vais, j'veux. Commented Aug 9 at 20:15
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    What I think I hear in your 2 examples is an other solution: to realize the v as an approximant instead of a fricative. Specially in the 2nd example, I hear j'uais, where u is a bit like the initial v in Latin. In the 1st example I hear j'weux where w is as in English. I think the same shift may occur if the sibilant is unvoiced, with un cheveu pronounced un ch'weu instead of un ch'veu. Commented Aug 9 at 20:18
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    Really appreciate the input and suggestions! Just to clarify: My confusion isn't with the elision of "je" into "j'", it's with the vowel sounds in "veux" and "vais" (/ø/ and /ɛ/ respectively) seeming to totally disappear, or at the very least be reduced to a schwa which is then elided. In the first example, my ear cannot catch a single distinct sound between the initial [ʒ] and the start of the word "attraper", and in the second, I almost feel like I hear "j't'en" with zero trace of "vais". I didn't think that French permitted this kind of reduction of /ø/ and /ɛ/ although I could be wrong. Commented Aug 11 at 17:24
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    Sorry, Kyle, I'm sitting here switching between them in fast speech, I don't hear what you hear.
    – Lambie
    Commented Aug 12 at 14:01

3 Answers 3

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I'll answer you (the OP) as a native practitioner from hexagonal France, not as a linguist. I hear 2 things happening at once in your 1st example: 1. the v in veux kind of turned into a vowel, allowing the elision of the diphtongue eu; and 2. the syllable is not stressed like you would expect, as a non-native who trained your ear with careful speakers. I surmise this: the lack of stress, is what leaves you with the impression the whole vowel has disappeared, when native speakers confirm in comments it has not.

This is spoken French. The recommended elocution would be to pronounce all vowels, mark the liaisons and stress at predictable places, typically at the first consonant of the first non-grammatical word of each functional group:

Je veux z-attraper celui de minuit moins le quart.

Where a bold consonant indicates stress, like in poems in my 2nd grade reader: the syllable it starts is spoken louder, although not at a higher pitch like (I guess) you'd do in your native language. Even so, you've likely trained to rely on it for parsing spoken French, the same natural way as you use the tonal accent natively.

What I hear the 1st speaker utter instead is:

J' w' z-attraper ç'(l)ui de minuit moins l' quart.

Where ' is the elided e or eu, (l) the omitted liquid and w, the replacement of the voiced fricative v with a semi-vowel approximant: like midway between the English w and the German one. I surmise several things happened here:

  1. for stressing purposses, the utterer treats Je veu(x) as a grammatical word and the linked sibilant (transcribed as z-) as the first consonant of the verbal group;
  2. having elided the mute e in J(e) as is his wont he hits a snag: J'veux z-attraper is more difficult to pronounce than he anticipated, specifically more than Je v' z-attraper (where the elision of a diphtongue would be OK just before the stress);
  3. So he grabs both the butter and the coins that paid for it: he realizes the v as an approximant instead of a fricative.

This solves the problem of the double j-v consonant and allows to further elide the eu w/out meeting a problematic triple j-v-z: the approximant kind of doubles as a vowel, a very closed u.

Although it's off-topic, he hits an other elision snag later, in ç'lui: I hear him pronounce the syllable as in Switzerland, not as in sluice.

The 2nd example is more complex; the prescribed prosody would be:

je vais t'en faire voir de toutes les couleurs!

The rapper says s/th like:

ch'w' t'en fair' voir (d)'tout' les couleurs!

where ch transcribes the devoicing of the j and (d), the transformation of an unfeasible d'tout' into ttout'. Even native speakers get the impression of vais disappearing completely, because:

  • it is not stressed,
  • even the following syllable is not stressed,
  • the elided vowel is an è, not the expected e.

Added after @jlliagre 's comment: My post is emphatically not a phonetic analysis: it focuses on what I conjecture the speakers allowed themselves, especially which elisions, and the consequences they strived with; not on what we hear as a result. Accordingly, I tried to transcribe as maybe a novelist would represent spoken peculiarities in the direct speech: using the IPA in this role would miss the point and add to the confusion.

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    Could you use IPA instead of the unusual transcription? In any case, I only hear [ʃtə fɛʁ vwaʁ] in the second example.
    – jlliagre
    Commented Aug 14 at 16:45
  • @jlliagre ah, a good question as usual. No, I do not believe I could: as a non-linguist, I am not competent to describe what the examples sound like and I do not even try to. Commented Aug 14 at 17:30
  • @jlliagre that you hear [ʃtə fɛʁ vwaʁ] is a case in point, if you mean to emphasize you do not hear [ʃʋtə fɛʁ vwaʁ]: I cannot say which you would hear if I said aloud what I transcribed "ch'w' t'en °fair' voir" Commented Aug 14 at 17:49
  • [fyi: mainland, hexagonal is not used]
    – Lambie
    Commented Aug 15 at 14:24
  • @Lambie Of course it is used. By me, as a borrowing from French, for the fun of raising puzzled eyebrows in non-Canadian audiences. Commented Aug 25 at 9:03
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If you listen carefully, in the first audio sample the /ø/ is sounded, albeit faintly. It makes sense, because the man uses a [z] liaison between veux and attraper, and as @None pointed out, you cannot chain two elisions or it would result in three consonants in a row: [ʒvz]. Some vowel has to be inserted somewhere.

What you might have in mind is that two consecutive vowels sometimes tend to merge. J'veux avoir and j'vais avoir can indeed sound extremely close.

In the second extract, not only je vais t'en but really all the words are mashed together. It's very unusual, not recommended for clear communication and probably dictated by rythm and verse length in the song. It also sounds like he says rouge, not rose.

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In the first example, the speech and tone is not very natural. The speaker is likely reading that phrase and makes a liaison he probably wouldn't have done in a natural conversation [za tʁa pe]. The reduction of Je veux is nevertheless usual: [ʒvə]. What I would expect is [ʒvə a tʁa pe] (4 syllables) or the quicker [ʒva tʁa pe].

The second sentence is pronounced quickly in a more natural way. I hear [ʃtə fɛʁ vwaʁ] so je vais t'en (assuming he said that) has been strongly reduced from three syllables (careful speech) to a single syllable.

However, it seems unusual for nasal [ɑ̃] to be realized as a [ə]. My guess is the actual expression was the non standard Je vais te faire voir de toutes les couleurs. Whatever the case, the semi-auxiliary aller was totally dropped.

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  • I think the 1st example is from a professional actor who was instructed "to speak as in everyday life" instead of "as he trained to imitate relaxed speech". Commented Aug 16 at 10:17
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    @FrançoisJurain Sacredceltic profile or blog doesn't suggest a professional actor but it is right that this liaison would be heard in such a context. I disagree however about its realization in everyday life. After listening to dozens and dozens of YouTube samples, I was unable to find a single example of liaison after je peux or je veux.
    – jlliagre
    Commented Aug 16 at 11:23
  • e.g. Je veux aller on YouGlish
    – jlliagre
    Commented Aug 16 at 11:41
  • Actually we agree. He attempts to speak as in evryday life does not mean he succeeds. Commented Aug 17 at 8:09

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