3

Does anyone know when the final T in French words like état ceased to be pronounced. I am interested in making a comparison with modern English pronunciation, in which it has become fashionable, if not compulsory, to make the final T silent in words like 'pocket'. I recently heard the editor of the (late) 'Independent' newspaper trying to drop both the Ts in the word'entity'. He was having a bit of a struggle!

As far as I know in French it is only the final Ts that are dropped.

Roger Ordish

Improve this question
3
  • 1
    This doesn’t affect the validity of your interesting (+1, btw) question, but here in my little corner of English-speaking Virginia, final consonants (“T”s and all) don’t usually start being dropped until after the final trou normand has been downed.
    – Papa Poule
    Commented Feb 4, 2017 at 23:25
  • 2
    In English final /t/ after vowels is generally not really "dropped" just replaced with a glottal stop. For example I don't know of any major English accent where "thought" rhymes with "thaw". I don't know if French ever passed through a stage with word-final glottal stops like this.
    – sumelic
    Commented Feb 4, 2017 at 23:45
  • 2
    Agreed with sumelic. I haven't yet heard the English accent where it's simply dropped. It does get replaced by a glottal in some UK accents, and it gets heavily de-aspirated or "unreleased" in some NA accents. This phenomenon, notated [t̚] in IPA, means that the tongue articulates the sound but doesn't give the necessary burst of air afterwards that permits a listener to actually hear it. But it can still have phonological effects on nearby sounds. :)
    – Luke Sawczak ♦
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 1:35

1 Answer 1

Reset to default
2

It's hard to tell precisely, but I found this page (in French) that gives an history of pronunciation. (Jump to "IV - Principaux phénomènes touchant les consonnes")

Les autres consonnes finales (ex : t) s'assourdissent au VIIIème siècle, et s'effacent progressivement (ça dépend des consonnes), jusqu'au XIIIème. Le r est le plus résistant (XIIIème).

Other (note: other than "m", that disappeared earlier) final consonants (ex: t) grew quieter in the 8th century, and faded progressively (depending on the consonant), until the 13th century. The r was the most resistant (13th century).

In English, it's very related to the accent, I don't think it has something to do with French.

Improve this answer
8
  • 1
    The examples at the page you cite are interesting. But I was surprised: do we really say des aRs for des arcs? I pronounce that c before the plural s.
    – Frank
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 3:22
  • 1
    @Frank The examples are not always current language, sometimes they give pronunciation like it was at a certain time period
    – Teleporting Goat
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 3:30
  • Yes, but in this case, they say after the 18th century, in all cases... Anyway. Not a big deal. Very interesting page though.
    – Frank
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 3:32
  • @Frank You misread, it says "avant le XIIIème siècle :", the example they give after "arcs" is clearly aged language (the part with "chat")
    – Teleporting Goat
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 3:38
  • But then it says: "Après le XIIIème, elle disparaît dans tous les cas." ?
    – Frank
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 3:39

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.